I use 1/4" threaded inserts and furniture bolts from Ace Hardware..... a lot less expensive.
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| Bolt-on neck hardware - whaddya use? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7212 |
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| Author: | harmonist34 [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:23 pm ] |
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I'm looking at options for bolt-on neck hardware right now. There's the stew-mac and lmii options but they seem a bit expensive to me and I'd like to hear from those of you who have found a local hardware store solution. I'm undecided at this point whether I'm going to try a mortise and tenon or a flush mount so I'd love to hear from anyone who does either. Thanks, Andrew (no longer in Managua, Nicaragua and consequently feeling quite disoriented in Minneapolis, MN) |
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| Author: | peterm [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:35 pm ] |
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I use 1/4" threaded inserts and furniture bolts from Ace Hardware..... a lot less expensive.
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:40 pm ] |
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I use the threaded brass inserts as sold by Stewmac, and LMII. I buy them at Ace Hardware for about $0.30 ea. Allen head capscrews are about the same, and the washers are about $0.05 . Other times I use the threaded studs with a 1/4" woodscrew at one end, and a 1/4-20 at the other. Both methods work well. Al |
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| Author: | old man [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:49 pm ] |
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Mortise & tenon. I use 1/4"x2" bolts and cross dowels (barrel nuts) as shown on Cumpiano's site. Work great. Ron |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:16 pm ] |
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I used the LMI ones til John Mayes gave me one of his...Gnarly looking knife-toothy-studdie-thingy, and goes in with an allen wrench...and a knock-down furniture connector bolt which has a big head that I don't countersink, just a lock washer and right down snug to the block...as for the joint, I've done M/T and just flush ala the "old" Taylor style...both work great! |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:40 pm ] |
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I use these: Threaded Inserts and these: Matching Bolts You can get something similar at your local hardware store or home center. I wick some thin CA in after setting the insert. -Mark |
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| Author: | Michael Shaw [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:45 pm ] |
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Instead of gluing the fingerboard extension to the top what method would you use to secure the fingerboard to the top other then gluing? Taylor being one of the biggest bolt on neck acoustic producers do they use a hardware method for the extension? I have watch their friday shop videos but I didn't see if they glue the extension or what. maybe I missed it. Anyone know how you could do this? |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:31 pm ] |
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Ditto. Although I've got some barrel bolts as well that I'm going to try stuff with.. |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:01 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Michael Shaw] Instead of gluing the fingerboard extension to the top what method would you use to secure the fingerboard to the top other then gluing? Taylor being one of the biggest bolt on neck acoustic producers do they use a hardware method for the extension? I have watch their friday shop videos but I didn't see if they glue the extension or what. maybe I missed it. Anyone know how you could do this?[/QUOTE] Check out John Maye's DVD concerning the neck joint, and this thread from the OLF.... Bolt-on neck thread OLF |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:15 am ] |
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I use brass 1/4-20unc furniture inserts with 14-20unc x 2" allen cap screws and belville warshers |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:33 am ] |
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Michael: What's a "belville" washer? -Mark |
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| Author: | rich altieri [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:09 am ] |
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[QUOTE=old man] Mortise & tenon. I use 1/4"x2" bolts and cross dowels (barrel nuts) as shown on Cumpiano's site. Work great. Ron[/QUOTE] I use brass inserts from Martin but I gotta tell ya, I am going to the barrell nuts and drill. I have broken my last tenion while inserting these nuts. I think I like your idea of drilling into the side of the tenion and simply inserting the barrel nut vs. screwing an insert into the narrow tenion. Has anyone else ever had this problem???? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:31 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Mark Tripp] Michael: What's a "belville" washer? -Mark [/QUOTE] It is a solid flat washer that is conically beveled towards the bolt head. the conical bevel compress as you tighten and acts as a locking device. Because it is in complete contact with the both the retaining shoulder and the bolt head and is exerting compression force on each is less likely to loss its lock. Plus it weighs less than a lock washer and flat washer combo. It is the same warshers supplied by LMI in their insert kit. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:06 am ] |
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[QUOTE=rich altieri] [QUOTE=old man] Mortise & tenon. I use 1/4"x2" bolts and cross dowels (barrel nuts) as shown on Cumpiano's site. Work great. Ron[/QUOTE] I use brass inserts from Martin but I gotta tell ya, I am going to the barrell nuts and drill. I have broken my last tenion while inserting these nuts. I think I like your idea of drilling into the side of the tenion and simply inserting the barrel nut vs. screwing an insert into the narrow tenion. Has anyone else ever had this problem????[/QUOTE] Rich, Yes I have done this but there are reasons it happens. The most common reasons are undersized bore, bottoming out and tapping in off concentric with the bore Many eliminate this by boring larger hole to fit a hardwood dowel, glue the dowel into the bore then bore the dowel and threading the insert into the dowel. If the dowel cracks the crack stopes at the dowel. |
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| Author: | Wayne Clark [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:10 am ] |
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[QUOTE=rich altieri] [QUOTE=old man] Mortise & tenon. I use 1/4"x2" bolts and cross dowels (barrel nuts) as shown on Cumpiano's site. Work great. Ron[/QUOTE] I use brass inserts from Martin but I gotta tell ya, I am going to the barrell nuts and drill. I have broken my last tenion while inserting these nuts. I think I like your idea of drilling into the side of the tenion and simply inserting the barrel nut vs. screwing an insert into the narrow tenion. Has anyone else ever had this problem????[/QUOTE] Screwing an insert into a tenon has alway worried me. Especially since I make a stacked heel. I am afraid I will split the heel along one of the glue joints. It hasn't happened yet, but I worry about it. I got Robbie's steel string dvd and he shows the use of the barrel nuts. I'm going to give it a try on my current build. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:50 am ] |
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I have only used the barrel bolts, never had a problem. I also cut a rabbet in the tenon and heel where I glue a piece of wood with the grain going in the oposite direction of the heel for insurance. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:40 am ] |
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1/4-20 x 1.5 inch bolts from LeeValley - cheapest ones around that I know of, countersunk into the block and eventually covered with a label, and then the 1/4-20 x 10mm inserts form HomeDepot. A little CA on the inserts and you are off to the races - if some glue gets in the threads, tap it out (with a 1/4-20 tap, not as in tap it witha hammer !!). |
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| Author: | Jordan Bunte [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:54 am ] |
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Lee Valley's prices are very good for hardware, etc. |
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| Author: | Jeff Doty [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:17 am ] |
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Hello, So far I have used a mortise and tenon with the inserts and bolts. But, I am thinking of trying a butt joint/flush joint with hanger bolts secured with a washer and nut inside the box. Anyone doing this? I think Al Carruth warned against a flush joint, due to lack of material on the neck end, and the resulting string pull. But, I may rout out a small section of the vertical face of the neck heel and glue in a section of wood with the grain running the other direction for strength. I hope it will work! Jeff |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:11 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Jeff Doty] Hello, So far I have used a mortise and tenon with the inserts and bolts. But, I am thinking of trying a butt joint/flush joint with hanger bolts secured with a washer and nut inside the box. Anyone doing this? I think Al Carruth warned against a flush joint, due to lack of material on the neck end, and the resulting string pull. But, I may rout out a small section of the vertical face of the neck heel and glue in a section of wood with the grain running the other direction for strength. I hope it will work! Jeff[/QUOTE] I'm still making the butt joint, but with the inserts into the heel...I think Taylor used to do it the "outside-in" way, but I'm not sure...I've not had any problems with string pull issues at the heel... 
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| Author: | Tomas [ Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:22 am ] |
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Check out the new Taylor Joint via Frets.com http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Data/Guitar/Taylor/9 9NeckJoint/99joint.html |
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| Author: | Michael Shaw [ Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:53 am ] |
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Tomas thanks for this. There was something wrong with the link you posted but I found it. Thanks I was looking for this info. here it is. Taylor neck Joint |
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